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Nintendo to Metroid Fans:  We Have a Surprise for You!
February 9th 2004, 05:11 CET by Charles

What the fuck makes developers think they can completely change a game, partway through, and expect people to like it?  I'm not going to spoil what exactly Nintendo has done with Metroid: Zero Mission, but needless to say, the game changes drastically in to something completely different.  Something that is NOT Metroid.  

For all my fear of Nintendo dropping the ball, turns out they actually wanted to, and just wanted to surprise you with it in the worst possible way.  Which is a shame, because up until fighting Motherbrain, Metroid:  Zero Mission is a damn fine game, perhaps even the best 2D entry in the series.

Who at Nintendo thought the extra missions were a good idea?
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Home » Topic: Nintendo to Metroid Fans:  We Have a Surprise for You!

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#3 by Duality
2004-02-09 05:16:18
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
According to Jibble, democracy is a pain in the ass gameplay mechanic unfit for human consumption.

Fuck you, Jibble.
#4 by BobJustBob
2004-02-09 05:20:37
So is this section really only 10 minutes long?

Dood.
#5 by Jibble
2004-02-09 05:20:50
What I meant was: Democracy looks like me voting "Yes", resulting in this topic appearing on the front page.

That is all, thank you.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#6 by TheTrunkDr.
2004-02-09 05:25:35
I for one am very disappointed in the crappy ass gameplay that was tacked on for the "extra mission." The only thing remotely cool about it was the boss and only because of the reflection of yourself that would hurt you if you shot it. It wasn't metorid, it wasn't done well, and it was annoying in the extreme.

I kid cause I care.
#7 by Darkseid-D
2004-02-09 05:29:50
rogerboal@hotmail.com
I own no consoles, I am missing out on so many great games.

In other news, the up coming Frontiers changes in DAOC/frontiers look to either totally revamp the game or crush it beyond recovery.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#8 by m0nty
2004-02-09 05:30:53
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Let's see if every post in this thread can contain the word "ass".
#9 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 05:34:15
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
So this topic was created for us to discuss something that the topic doesn't divulge.  Excellent.

This truly is PlanetCrap.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#10 by LPMiller
2004-02-09 05:35:15
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Uh........ass. S'all I got.

I believe I can fly......urk.
#11 by yotsuya
2004-02-09 05:43:32
Tell me what the ending is specifically, you ass.*


*Pejorative not directed to anyone in particular.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#12 by Squeaky
2004-02-09 05:54:26
what exactly sucks about it?

an average of 92% doesn't exactly scream asstastic to me.

Problem talk creates problems. Solution talk creates solutions.
dvds
#13 by JMCDaveL
2004-02-09 06:07:53
It's all downhill after Super Metroid.

--jmc
#14 by Charles
2004-02-09 06:32:45
www.bluh.org
Spoilers for those who wish to discuss...

After the 'ending' of Metroid: Zero Mission (once you kill motherbrain) there is an added on section.  This section starst with, drumroll please, ALL your stuff taken away.  Including your suit, and the ability to kill enemies.  You become a girl in a jumpsuit with a stun gun that can only stun an enemy for three seconds, once every five seconds.  The next chunk of gameplay is you trying to 'sneak' (I put it in quotes because it's basically impossible to do) by the enemies; when you fail to do so, it becomes an annoying learn by failure process where you have to run and hope you take the right turns/jumps/whatever in order to become 'hidden' so that they don't see you anymore.

Basically, it's a complete paradigm shift.  You go from metroid (run and gun, kill everything that moves, solve all problems with bombs), to some kind of poor sneaking game (avoid all enemies, cannot compete with them, they kill you easily).  After an annoying amount of time jumping through "Guess what's in my pocket" style stealth hoops, you get your stuff back.  But at that point it's annoying because the enemies are either a total pushover, or a pain in the ass.

So I guess what this topic is about is games that completely change what they are partway through.  I'm of the opinion that if a developer wants to change what a game is, they should change the WHOLE thing, and not just spring a surprise like this on a player when he's mostly done the game.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#15 by lwf
2004-02-09 06:55:03
Devil May Cry did it well.

We all try harder as the days run out
#16 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 06:57:14
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
The new Fallout game on XBox is sort of like that (Brotherhood of Steel).  Yeah, it's the Fallout world but it's an entirely new style of game.  The true RPG is dead, long live Diablo...

However, the characters swear, so it has some redeeming qualities...

Overall, I'm actually pretty hooked on it.  Probably because I keep getting cooler guns and armor, along with skill points to spend.  That helps keep me motivated to run into the next area and kill everything that moves...

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#17 by Jibble
2004-02-09 07:08:38
#15 lwf
Devil May Cry did it well.

I thought I was doing something horribly wrong the first time that magma spider whipped my ass.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#18 by Bailey
2004-02-09 07:11:31
Metal Gear Metroid! Solid Samus! Haggle gaggle, I'm an armchair GBA game designer.

Warren

Yes, I found the jello-filled, leather-strap-ensemble porn starlet boss especially redeeming.

You got nothing coming.
#19 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 07:28:38
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Yes, I found the jello-filled, leather-strap-ensemble porn starlet boss especially redeeming.

Yes, I've managed to gloss over her in my mind and tried to forget that travesty.  I wish artists in this industry would mentally progress past the age of 14...

Hey, at least she dies early.  On to the ghouls and muties...

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#20 by Hugin
2004-02-09 07:32:57
lmccain@nber.org
Devil May Cry had a jarring stealth section?  I don't remember that.  I don't really remember any major gameplay style weirdnesses in DMC until right at the end when you suddenly start playing Space Harrier.
#21 by lwf
2004-02-09 07:38:46
And that is what I'm talking about.

We all try harder as the days run out
#22 by Bailey
2004-02-09 07:39:01
On to the ghouls and muties...

You mean the ones who explosively pass glowing green urine on-camera?

You got nothing coming.
#23 by Your Friend
2004-02-09 07:52:44

 This section starst with, drumroll please, ALL your stuff taken away.


I hate to be the one to break this to you, but every Metroid sequel in existence starts with ALL your stuff taken away.   Having the same thing happen during one of the games doesn't seem like such a huge step to me.  Also, Zero Mission is awesome (yes, even after the 'switch' part), so fuck all ya'll that are dissin on it.

Comment Signature
#24 by Squeaky
2004-02-09 08:02:53
#16 Warren Marshall
The new Fallout game on XBox is sort of like that (Brotherhood of Steel).  Yeah, it's the Fallout world but it's an entirely new style of game.  The true RPG is dead, long live Diablo...

However, the characters swear, so it has some redeeming qualities...

Overall, I'm actually pretty hooked on it.  Probably because I keep getting cooler guns and armor, along with skill points to spend.  That helps keep me motivated to run into the next area and kill everything that moves...

cool. i was kinda leary about it since all the reviews said it was BG:DA with a fallout skin. But then I remembered: what's wrong with that?

Problem talk creates problems. Solution talk creates solutions.
dvds
#25 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 08:03:16
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#22 Bailey
On to the ghouls and muties...

You mean the ones who explosively pass glowing green urine on-camera?

Haven't noticed that yet, but I'm only on the bridge of Los.  I'm jumping from pipe to pipe and having fun.  Fun, I say!  Yes, fun ...  Jumpy fun ...  *sob*

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#26 by Squeaky
2004-02-09 08:04:24
#25 Warren Marshall
#22 Bailey
On to the ghouls and muties...

You mean the ones who explosively pass glowing green urine on-camera?

Haven't noticed that yet, but I'm only on the bridge of Los.  I'm jumping from pipe to pipe and having fun.  Fun, I say!  Yes, fun ...  Jumpy fun ...  *sob*

PoP has proven that yes, jumping puzzles can be fun.

Problem talk creates problems. Solution talk creates solutions.
dvds
#27 by Dumdeedum
2004-02-09 08:31:59
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Your Friend
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but every Metroid sequel in existence starts with ALL your stuff taken away.   Having the same thing happen during one of the games doesn't seem like such a huge step to me.

Never played any Metroid games so maybe there's something I'm missing, but I'll illustrate my stance on this in a nice easy diagram as you're clearly hard of thinking.

Starting a sequel without stuff.
      |
HUGE STEP.
      |
Losing stuff during game.

Those evil-natured robots, they're programmed to destroy us.
#28 by Bailey
2004-02-09 08:34:01
YF

Also, Zero Mission is awesome (yes, even after the 'switch' part), so fuck all ya'll that are dissin on it.

Thanks Bob, we value your input.

You got nothing coming.
#29 by Jamiekin
2004-02-09 09:17:36
Nintendo made you it's bitch?

I have a crocodile down my pants.
#30 by The_Joker
2004-02-09 10:38:31
http://www.jackinworld.com
Dude, 3 hours of foreplay?

What?

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#31 by Sgt Hulka
2004-02-09 10:50:05
Yeah yeah yeah Space Truckin!

A cubicle is a coffin with email.
#32 by Dethstryk
2004-02-09 11:33:10
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I really don't see the problem. It's not like they fucked you in the face like Neversoft did with Tony Hawk: Underground.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#33 by Dethstryk
2004-02-09 11:33:44
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Hulka -

I've always wanted to cover that song. But, I guess I also need to finish the covers of Speed King and Maybe I'm a Leo that I recorded long ago.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#34 by lwf
2004-02-09 12:11:36
Not to mention Dr. Mario. God I fucking hate you.

We all try harder as the days run out
#35 by The_Joker
2004-02-09 13:12:04
http://www.jackinworld.com
Well isn't this nice?

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#36 by deadlock
2004-02-09 13:45:12
http://www.deadlocked.org/
You'll never get to heaven with an AK-47!

#37 by jafd
2004-02-09 14:15:09
I liked it better when we were refusing to divulge what happens at the end of the game. You all should have experienced the great betrayal first-hand.

I'd like to point out that the shitty stealth mission is only "ten minutes long"... if you're playing on an emulator with quick-save.

I'd also like to point out that the rest of the game is exceptionally good. The inclusion of the stupid endgame isn't enough to invalidate the rest of the experience... but it's close.

It's my life. It never ends.
#38 by Neale
2004-02-09 14:32:49
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Hang on, isn't this a bonus mission that you optionally do after the game?

That's like complaining that the credits suck.

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash
#39 by jafd
2004-02-09 14:39:23
It's only a "bonus" mission if you think the game ends when the original Metroid did. It doesn't say "Mission Accomplished!" until the very end.

It's my life. It never ends.
#40 by Dethstryk
2004-02-09 14:55:32
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Not to mention Dr. Mario. God I fucking hate you.

Frowning emoticon.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#41 by gaggle
2004-02-09 14:55:57
I propose the theory that only the ending of Half-Life has the ability to unite people under the banner of 'Hey The Ending Sucks'. An optional mission in some Nintendo game carries insufficient power to accomplish such a thing.
#42 by Jibble
2004-02-09 14:59:49
I don't know what you guys are talking about.  Metroid is still super fun on my NES.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#43 by jafd
2004-02-09 15:02:17
a) Xen was great.

b) It's not "optional." You don't unlock Hard mode, you don't unlock original Metroid, until you finish the whole game. Well, okay, it is "optional", in the same sense that playing the game in the first place is "optional."

It's my life. It never ends.
#44 by Neale
2004-02-09 15:42:05
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
a) Xen was great.


In your (the minority's) opinion.

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash
#45 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 15:49:03
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#44 Neale
a) Xen was great.


In your (the minority's) opinion.

Welcome to jafd.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#46 by jafd
2004-02-09 16:32:51
Surprise! Most people are stupid.

It's my life. It never ends.
#47 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 16:34:53
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#46 jafd
Surprise! Most people are stupid.

Agreed.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#48 by Charles
2004-02-09 16:39:31
www.bluh.org
YF-
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but every Metroid sequel in existence starts with ALL your stuff taken away.   Having the same thing happen during one of the games doesn't seem like such a huge step to me.


When the game suddenly puts you at a situation where you have significantly less than what you did at the beginning of the game, I think there is a problem.  Not only that, but I don't ever remember sneaking or not being able to run and gun at the beginning of Every-Other-Metroid.

jafd-
I'd also like to point out that the rest of the game is exceptionally good. The inclusion of the stupid endgame isn't enough to invalidate the rest of the experience... but it's close.


I agree.  It's still a good game despite that major flaw.  There was plenty to like about it, but it could have been so much better if they didn't fuck you over like that.

Hang on, isn't this a bonus mission that you optionally do after the game?


You don't see the credits and % complete until after you complete the 'bonus' mission, so no, it's not optional.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#49 by UncleJeet
2004-02-09 16:42:04
Dumdeedum -

     After looking at them both, they aren't really very similar, but at first glance your PC icon is eerie in its similarity to this that I made last month.

     Coincidence?  Yeah, but also maybe we're mystically connected through the mysterious ether of the cosmos.  My brother!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#50 by yotsuya
2004-02-09 16:49:05
Jeet-

Use "soulmate". It's better.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#51 by McBain
2004-02-09 16:51:44
#46 jafd
    Surprise! Most people are stupid.

Agreed.

I don't agree.  I think most people simply haven't been given the tools throughout their lives to properly and objectively investigate the world around them.  We don't instill skepticism and investigative skills, or critical thinking skills in our children.  We blind them with puffery about religion and morality.  We make them think that there are simple truths that everyone simply has to go along with.  Consequently, in adulthood it is often to late to disrupt their worldview, so they choose to remain in ignorance.  It's not stupidity, most people are biologicially capable of great things intellectually.  But you can't ask them to build a house with their bare hands.  They have to have the tools.

Fighting the war on weapons of mass destruction-related program activity.
#52 by Jibble
2004-02-09 16:51:49
Gaaaaaaaay.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
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