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Nintendo to Metroid Fans:  We Have a Surprise for You!
February 9th 2004, 05:11 CET by Charles

What the fuck makes developers think they can completely change a game, partway through, and expect people to like it?  I'm not going to spoil what exactly Nintendo has done with Metroid: Zero Mission, but needless to say, the game changes drastically in to something completely different.  Something that is NOT Metroid.  

For all my fear of Nintendo dropping the ball, turns out they actually wanted to, and just wanted to surprise you with it in the worst possible way.  Which is a shame, because up until fighting Motherbrain, Metroid:  Zero Mission is a damn fine game, perhaps even the best 2D entry in the series.

Who at Nintendo thought the extra missions were a good idea?
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#38 by Neale
2004-02-09 14:32:49
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Hang on, isn't this a bonus mission that you optionally do after the game?

That's like complaining that the credits suck.

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash
#39 by jafd
2004-02-09 14:39:23
It's only a "bonus" mission if you think the game ends when the original Metroid did. It doesn't say "Mission Accomplished!" until the very end.

It's my life. It never ends.
#40 by Dethstryk
2004-02-09 14:55:32
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Not to mention Dr. Mario. God I fucking hate you.

Frowning emoticon.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#41 by gaggle
2004-02-09 14:55:57
I propose the theory that only the ending of Half-Life has the ability to unite people under the banner of 'Hey The Ending Sucks'. An optional mission in some Nintendo game carries insufficient power to accomplish such a thing.
#42 by Jibble
2004-02-09 14:59:49
I don't know what you guys are talking about.  Metroid is still super fun on my NES.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#43 by jafd
2004-02-09 15:02:17
a) Xen was great.

b) It's not "optional." You don't unlock Hard mode, you don't unlock original Metroid, until you finish the whole game. Well, okay, it is "optional", in the same sense that playing the game in the first place is "optional."

It's my life. It never ends.
#44 by Neale
2004-02-09 15:42:05
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
a) Xen was great.


In your (the minority's) opinion.

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash
#45 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 15:49:03
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#44 Neale
a) Xen was great.


In your (the minority's) opinion.

Welcome to jafd.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#46 by jafd
2004-02-09 16:32:51
Surprise! Most people are stupid.

It's my life. It never ends.
#47 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 16:34:53
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#46 jafd
Surprise! Most people are stupid.

Agreed.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#48 by Charles
2004-02-09 16:39:31
www.bluh.org
YF-
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but every Metroid sequel in existence starts with ALL your stuff taken away.   Having the same thing happen during one of the games doesn't seem like such a huge step to me.


When the game suddenly puts you at a situation where you have significantly less than what you did at the beginning of the game, I think there is a problem.  Not only that, but I don't ever remember sneaking or not being able to run and gun at the beginning of Every-Other-Metroid.

jafd-
I'd also like to point out that the rest of the game is exceptionally good. The inclusion of the stupid endgame isn't enough to invalidate the rest of the experience... but it's close.


I agree.  It's still a good game despite that major flaw.  There was plenty to like about it, but it could have been so much better if they didn't fuck you over like that.

Hang on, isn't this a bonus mission that you optionally do after the game?


You don't see the credits and % complete until after you complete the 'bonus' mission, so no, it's not optional.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#49 by UncleJeet
2004-02-09 16:42:04
Dumdeedum -

     After looking at them both, they aren't really very similar, but at first glance your PC icon is eerie in its similarity to this that I made last month.

     Coincidence?  Yeah, but also maybe we're mystically connected through the mysterious ether of the cosmos.  My brother!

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#50 by yotsuya
2004-02-09 16:49:05
Jeet-

Use "soulmate". It's better.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#51 by McBain
2004-02-09 16:51:44
#46 jafd
    Surprise! Most people are stupid.

Agreed.

I don't agree.  I think most people simply haven't been given the tools throughout their lives to properly and objectively investigate the world around them.  We don't instill skepticism and investigative skills, or critical thinking skills in our children.  We blind them with puffery about religion and morality.  We make them think that there are simple truths that everyone simply has to go along with.  Consequently, in adulthood it is often to late to disrupt their worldview, so they choose to remain in ignorance.  It's not stupidity, most people are biologicially capable of great things intellectually.  But you can't ask them to build a house with their bare hands.  They have to have the tools.

Fighting the war on weapons of mass destruction-related program activity.
#52 by Jibble
2004-02-09 16:51:49
Gaaaaaaaay.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#53 by jafd
2004-02-09 17:00:34
Let's take a shortcut here and demand that McBain define "stupid." The next 300 posts will thank us.

It's my life. It never ends.
#54 by Jibble
2004-02-09 17:01:32
I thought he already did redefine it.  Our work is done!

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#55 by Darkseid-D
2004-02-09 17:11:54
rogerboal@hotmail.com
wait a second...

Warren just quoted jafd without jafd being quoted....


Something strange going on here, I thought Warren had jafd permanently kerplunked?

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#56 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-09 17:12:46
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#55 Darkseid-D
wait a second...

Warren just quoted jafd without jafd being quoted....


Something strange going on here, I thought Warren had jafd permanently kerplunked?

Incorrect.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Canít Handle Femur"
#57 by Ashiran
2004-02-09 17:15:33
There is a difference between "stupid" and "dumb" just as there is a difference between "smart" and "intelligent".

"Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."
#58 by UncleJeet
2004-02-09 17:17:29
Bah, debate about something adequately absurb if you're going to bother debating.  Since we're on Metroid....

TOPIC:  After completing Metroid for the first time, players learn that the alter-ego they have been identifying with throughout the whole game is, in fact a woman.  You can tell this because of the bikini she wears under her power suit.

OPTION 1: The gender switch at the end of Metroid was used as a recruitment tool for a secret gay alliance with the hidden agenda of turning all young boys of the 80's into raving homosexuals by shocking them with the sudden revelation that they've been imagining themselves as a girl for the past three months whilst shooting brain things, trying to save the galaxy.

OPTION 2:  The gender switch at the end of Metroid was a cheap device employed by the developers to make red blooded american males want to play through the same game a second time, with the only reward being some flesh toned pixels, but completely devoid of any fluid dynamics simulation which would not be seen until Dead or Alive.

OPTION 3:  Samus wearing a bikini is degrading to women, and is one of the greatest travesties mankind has ever been party to.  All men should have their penis severed and all radio stations set to broadcast Lilithfaire on a twenty four hour rotation.

OPTION 4:  Make fun of Jeet.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#59 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 17:42:12
Since someone mentioned PoP.  And someone else mentioned 'asstastic':

PoP: Sands of Time on the PC.  What is up with the asstastic controls?  Is this how all console games are controlled?  That the movement of the character is relative to the camera instead of relative to, you know, the direction the character is *facing*?
#60 by Jibble
2004-02-09 17:43:38
#59 FormerFlyGuy
Since someone mentioned PoP.  And someone else mentioned 'asstastic':

PoP: Sands of Time on the PC.  What is up with the asstastic controls?  Is this how all console games are controlled?  That the movement of the character is relative to the camera instead of relative to, you know, the direction the character is *facing*?

Welcome to games in 3D.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#61 by Charles
2004-02-09 17:44:02
www.bluh.org
Jesus christ, no one likes tank controls you sick fucker.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#62 by UncleJeet
2004-02-09 17:45:58
That the movement of the character is relative to the camera instead of relative to, you know, the direction the character is *facing*?


And here I am thinking people mostly hate the Resident Evil / NOCTURNE controls schemes....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#63 by Jibble
2004-02-09 17:46:54
#62 UncleJeet
And here I am thinking people mostly hate the Resident Evil / NOCTURNE controls schemes....

And here you are thinking correctly...

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#64 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 17:48:14
#60

Tomb Raider had controls relative to the camera?  It's possible, but I certainly don't remember that being the case.

On a PC 3D game, I find the most reasonable controls to be directions keys to move (arrows or WASD) and the mouse controls direction so that the camera swings behind you (ala GTA3/VC).  To that, you add in a semi-free floating camera button and Bob's your uncle.  Why do people not like that control scheme?
#65 by Charles
2004-02-09 17:51:12
www.bluh.org
That system only works if the camera is attached to you, over the shoulder.  That is not necessarily true.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#66 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 17:54:48
Granted. But what are the playing advantages of not having the camera attached to you over the shoulder?  I find PoP ridiculously difficult to control because as soon as the camera moves (because it has struck some obstacle), the prince is running off in some other direction.
#67 by Ashiran
2004-02-09 17:59:13
If you are a die-hard Legacy of Kain player any kind of control + camera scheme is pie to you.

PoP for the PC was pie. Ofcourse, I played it with a gamepad. Don't know how bad keyboard is.

"Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."
#68 by Greg
2004-02-09 17:59:38
#66

I forget how PoP handles that case, but I do remember some games (DMC?) would keep you running in the same direction even though the camera changed. But that was a bit more awkward, because if you tweaked your direction or stopped for a split second, the controls would become relative to the current camera.

-DKI(ID
#69 by E-ph0nk
2004-02-09 17:59:48
http://www.electrophonk.be
#66 It's a habit, once you get used to the way it controls (or those kind of games control - a lot of console games use that camera/movement) it's no problem anymore.

*sigh*
#70 by Charles
2004-02-09 18:00:43
www.bluh.org
Granted. But what are the playing advantages of not having the camera attached to you over the shoulder?


Cinematic view and *gasp* better control.  You are far less limited in what you can do when you don't have to worry about yawing around all the time.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#71 by jafd
2004-02-09 18:00:49
Adapt or die. You can let me pick for you if you like.

It's my life. It never ends.
#72 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 18:02:26
So would the recommendation for PoP be to play it with a gamepad on the PC?  I'm only about 15 or 20% into the game, but already I can see that once the jumping puzzles get complex I'm going to want to hurl my monitor out the window in frustration :)
#73 by E-ph0nk
2004-02-09 18:03:44
http://www.electrophonk.be
#72 I'm at 42% or something, with keyboard only.. It's not really that hard once you "adapt" to the way those kind of games work.

But I figure a gamepad wouldn't hurt.

*sigh*
#74 by Charles
2004-02-09 18:04:05
www.bluh.org
The recommendation would be to buy a console, since gamepads on the PC lick festering donkey nuts.

I have no excuses, least of all for God.  Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations.  The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.
#75 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 18:04:27
Sorry jafd, the adults are trying to have a conversation.
#76 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-09 18:05:26
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Because the current discussion doesn't matter to me...


Did anyone see this on Discovery yet?  It's a show about the most dangerous seas in our history and the things living in them.

It was both the most amazing and most annoying show I've seen on Sea "Monsters" ever.  

The 3D modelling and CG was well above par.  It was great and they showed scale and potential habits and all kinds of REALLY interesting facts about Megladons (sp?) and all kinds of other creatures that have lived in the past.

Along with that, they had Nigel pretend to be in those Seas.  OMG!  It was utterly annoying.  They turned a great show into something like he was actually travelling through time and seeing these creatures in person.  They had the captain of his boat act arguments, they went through discussions about how the best way to see Megladons up close was, etc, etc, etc, etc.  They took it WAY overboard and made the show like a bad B flic.

The science and the CG kept me watching, but the rest of the show tried to drive me away continually.



We now return you to your regulary schedule arguments

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP
#77 by Bailey
2004-02-09 18:05:49
Charles is right, the ending of Metroid should be discovered in the privacy of your own horrified psyche. It's like zen: if the master tells you the answer, it will never be your own, dig?


Deth

It's not like they fucked you in the face like Neversoft did with Tony Hawk: Underground.

You mean in the overall lacking quality of gameplay and design, or did they do something at the end of the game?

You got nothing coming.
#78 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 18:06:37
'festering donkey nuts'.... Actually that sounds about right for PC gamepads.
#79 by Bailey
2004-02-09 18:10:00
Ash

PoP for the PC was pie. Ofcourse, I played it with a gamepad. Don't know how bad keyboard is.

I've played it with both on PC, and after a learning curve, I didn't have any issues with the keyboard controls. The quirks are annoying, but they're predictable, so unless you're one of those people who glazes off during gameplay, it shouldn't be an issue.

MattP

I'll check it out on the 14th. Sounds horribly interesting. I mean, horrible and interesting.

You got nothing coming.
#80 by UncleJeet
2004-02-09 18:14:43
The only sea monsters I've ever seen have come in the form of very large Texas women emerging from the surf of the beach wearing very small bikinis.  I have no desire to find even more horrific things.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#81 by Jibble
2004-02-09 18:18:54
#80 UncleJeet
The only sea monsters I've ever seen have come in the form of very large Texas women emerging from the surf of the beach wearing very small bikinis.  I have no desire to find even more horrific things.

*shudder*

For every person that says "Man, women in Texas are HOT," there's a guy clawing his eyes out in Galveston.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
#82 by yotsuya
2004-02-09 18:19:55
Man, women in Texas are HOT!

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns
#83 by gaggle
2004-02-09 18:20:23
I welcomed this newfangled relative-to-camera experience. Pretty odd at first (yeah I'm a PC gamer), but I think it makes the game more manageable. More.. easy to use. Each scene was like a prepeeled scrumptious pony, no fucking around having to press left to go right, just because the prince is running towards the camera. I realise doing that is not an impossible feat, but I think it makes it easier to just sit down and complete a sequence without having to look which way you're facing. As long as the developers desperately try and minimize the cameraswitches that crosses over so you're suddenly running back into the previous scene I'm a happy little camper.

I doubt the relative-to-camera scheme works well if you have to aim and shoot or drive things though..
#84 by jafd
2004-02-09 18:24:28
#72
I can see that once the jumping puzzles get complex I'm going to want to hurl my monitor out the window in frustration

#75
the adults are trying to have a conversation

I'm confused. Does this mean you are enjoying several adult beverages, or that you're huffing glue?

It's my life. It never ends.
#85 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-02-09 18:27:49
Yeah, Warren has the right idea.
#86 by G-Man
2004-02-09 18:34:17
Matt Perkins in #76 said:
Along with that, they had Nigel pretend to be in those Seas.  OMG!  It was utterly annoying.  They turned a great show into something like he was actually travelling through time and seeing these creatures in person.  They had the captain of his boat act arguments, they went through discussions about how the best way to see Megladons up close was, etc, etc, etc, etc.  They took it WAY overboard and made the show like a bad B flic.
That's the Discovery channel for you. 'Science' for morons with no attention span. Walking with the Dinosaurs and all that crap. The programs are an hour long but only teach you about three pages of text worth of anything due to the slow narration and 'reenactments'. You'd be far better off reading the encyclopedia. And yet children in high schools are still being shown this crap (along with much worse) because it is 'educational'.

From this week's Onion:
10th-Grade Class Watches Ben-Hur For Two Weeks
SALEM, VAóFor the eighth straight world-history period, sophomores at Riverside High School watched the 1959 classic Ben-Hur Tuesday. "The chariot races were pretty cool," Michael Bower said of the 211-minute film he and classmates have been watching in 25-minute segments, between roll call and free-reading. "And when Mr. Franks got back from the teachers' lounge, he told us Jesus is in tomorrow's part." Bower said he dreads next week, when the class will break into Ben-Hur discussion groups and share their ancient-history unit journals.
This is not a joke. This happens (minus the teacher spending the whole time in the lounge).
#87 by Jibble
2004-02-09 18:36:24
We spent three days watching the old version of Romeo and Juliet in Junior High.  My kids are going to private schools.

Winner of the prestigious "Yotsuya's Gold Star Writer of the Week" animated gif award.
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